Why you shouldn’t try to engage TERF’s in any kind of debate.

It doesn’t matter what your argument is, whether you have a valid point or not, trying to debate with some radical feminists is not something you can do on blogs they moderate.  The simple reason is, they won’t approve any response that doesn’t toe the radfem party line, which is why you’ll find blog after blog of one radfem after another slapping each on the back in congratulations for a well written piece.  Try to explain things (as someone they don’t consider female), and you’re “mansplaining” and have “male privilege”.  Do these people not realise they have cis-privelege?  They didn’t have to question why they felt that their body and brain didn’t match when growing up.  They also think that you can choose to be a lesbian, when no one chooses their sexuality.  Surely if you could choose your sexuality, we’d all choose what’s easiest, which for most people would be heterosexuality, but I digress.  They say that they are “gender-critical” and that it’s not transphobic to quote biology at you.  Maybe not, but do they have to keep reminding us of things we know all too well?  For mtf transwomen, we are fully aware that we do not menstruate, that we therefore cannot get pregnant, cannot experience childbirth, and that we most likely didn’t go to school as the the little girls we believed ourselves to be.  No, it may not be transphobic to do those things, it’s something else, it’s called being an asshole.  They are the first to complain when you are critical of them, or put up with so much of their bullshit and reply in an angry manner because then, you’re acting like all men, in a stereotypcial man way (but hang on here, aren’t they the ones that say we enforce stereotypes of the patriarchy?  They never actually explain that fully do they?)

So, to sum up, don’t reply to their blogs on blogs they moderate.  They’ll only approve the posts that suit them, that’s not debate, that’s not democracy.

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  1. #1 by femingen on September 27, 2013 - 9:21 pm

    Do you realize you just said that women shouldn’t talk about the experience of being women to spare your feelings? Do you not see the entitlement here?

    • #2 by oopster74 on September 27, 2013 - 9:26 pm

      No, I said you cannot argue with TERF’s on blogs they moderate and control, because they selectively approve what is posted. My only rules on my blog are keep the swearing to a minimum, and no flaming etc. I’ve seen some of the arguments turn into what are just back slapping exercises and “slagging-off” sessions (nasty name calling for non Brits), and it doesn’t achieve anything. A little respect and tolerance goes a long way.

      Aren’t you more inclined to pay attention to a well worded argument rather than one littered with expletives and nastiness?

      • #3 by femingen on September 27, 2013 - 9:29 pm

        What I understood, or misunderstood, is that you said women shouldn’t mention things such as periods, pregnancy, menopause and other things specifically related to our sex because doing so might upset a transwoman. Is that right or did I misunderstand?

        Also, I just read your entry on the heart attack, and I was actually concerned for you. But then you bizarrely veered off at the end and took a swipe at radical feminists. What the heck?

      • #4 by oopster74 on September 27, 2013 - 9:33 pm

        That wasn’t what I said or meant. What I meant was, if TERF’s do not like you, it doesn’t matter how valid or not your argument is, they will rubbish it and you. Transwomen are women, transmen are men, TERF’s do not accept this. The complain that they are being silenced, and then they silence critics of them, they are total hypocrites.

        I’ll reread my heart attack post to refresh my memory of it.

  2. #5 by femingen on September 27, 2013 - 9:35 pm

    Can you please explain what you mean here, then? “Maybe not, but do they have to keep reminding us of things we know all too well? For mtf transwomen, we are fully aware that we do not menstruate, that we therefore cannot get pregnant, cannot experience childbirth, and that we most likely didn’t go to school as the the little girls we believed ourselves to be. No, it may not be transphobic to do those things, it’s something else, it’s called being an asshole. “

    • #6 by oopster74 on September 27, 2013 - 9:39 pm

      Ok, what I meant by that, was they can talk about whatever they want, that’s their choice, but to say to a transwoman “you’re not a woman because you don’t menstruate”, they might as well just add “nagh nagh” or “ha ha” afterwards.

      • #7 by femingen on September 27, 2013 - 9:47 pm

        Uh, no. When I do that, it’s because these are things that are *hugely* important to me as a woman. A large part of my life has been defined by my struggles with infertility. In the past few years, a lot of my time, energy and money has been affected by the trouble I’ve had with uterine hyperplasia and suspected uterine cancer. My health, in large part, has been defined by my body’s inability to handle the hormones in birth control, which I didn’t realize for far too long was causing my depression and suicidal episodes. In my life, I’ve had to overcome a violent rape by someone who targeted me because I am a woman. It’s not a matter of nyah nyah. THIS IS WHO WE ARE. And if you must know, no — I can’t conceive of being a woman without these things that have made me. It is central to the very core of our identities. I can’t overstate enough how important these things are to us.

        So, from my perspective, to hear someone say that when I talk about this, it’s all about you and not me??? Really? I just … ugh. You have no idea how that irritates me.

        Whether you believe this or not, I do not say these things to poke a finger in your eye. I am so passionate about it because all of the things I just shared with you have been so important to my life as a woman. To be told I should just shut up about them, or to be told that they don’t matter because you didn’t experience them … I don’t know if you realize how insulting that is.

      • #8 by oopster74 on September 27, 2013 - 9:54 pm

        This isn’t what I’m saying at all. You have my total sympathy, compassion etc about your situation and I never said you shouldn’t talk about that. What I am saying people shouldn’t do, is poke fun at transwomen for not being able to menstruate, for not being able to get pregnant. Poking fun at people like that is not right. If I we’re to make fun of you because of the situation you’ve described, that would make me an asshole. The right thing for me to do would be to offer a shoulder to cry on etc, and I’m tempted to say to remove the post as you’ve shared very personal info about yourself that you might not want everyone know, and the internet has a long memory.

      • #9 by femingen on September 27, 2013 - 10:06 pm

        Don’t worry about that post – I have talked about these things in various blog posts. But what I am saying is, as a radfem myself, when I say that these are things that define women, I don’t say that to be mean. I have to go, as someone is waiting on me, but I just wanted to try to explain why these points get brought up so often. They really are a big deal.

      • #10 by oopster74 on September 27, 2013 - 10:31 pm

        Well can I just say that I’ve learned (I think it was after the heart attack post) that there is a difference between Radfems and Trans Exclusionary Rad Fems. Important things should be discussed, and I think we’ve had a decent discussion here (not sure if that’s the best way to describe it but the best way I can think of right now).

        I was assuming you we’re off out for the night, so have fun if you are, or whatever is approrpriate (need to tell myself off for making assumptions now).

      • #11 by oopster74 on October 2, 2013 - 2:04 am

        And yet more reasons not to try and engage in debate with TERF’s over at Gender Trender right now. Galleys Mag ( I’m assuming not his / her real name, but the only name he / she is willing to give) wrote a piece about what the trans and feminst communities could do to try to fix things. It was a well worded piece, even if I didn’t agree with it all, so that’s not the issue. It’s the comments section where it gets really disgusting. The language used, the disrespect shown, the wild accusations being thrown about. WordPress you should be ashamed to let this kind of thing go on on your website. I’m pretty sure it’s in violation of your own terms & conditions.

  3. #12 by oopster74 on September 27, 2013 - 9:36 pm

    Re-read it my heart attack post. I took responsibility for something that happened to me, but TERF’s don’t seem to accept responsibility for anything whether it’s their fault or not. I was trying to make a point while being funny at the same time.

Please feel free to leave a reply, but please do not be abusive to anyone, and please try to edit your own swearing to the absolute minimum. Comments that contain abuse to other posters or people in general will not be approved, but will be considered for approval if reposted with the offending parts removed.

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